Legends Series Tires Change for 2010

[Gary Cagle]

I talked with Tony in the 600 Racing Parts Department today (1-704-455-6005). Here is what he told me regarding Legends Series tires for 2010:

Q1- Who will make the Legends tire for 2010 Season? Federal Corporation will build the new Legends tire for 2010. They are a Taiwan-based tire manufacturing company and involved in a wide range of racing venues and sponsor a range of racing individuals and teams all over the world.

Q2- What will be the brand name/number of the Federal tire? It is unknown at this time what brand name/number of Federal tire will be, however, Tony said it will probably carry the Legends Edition name on the tire sidewall like the BF Goodrich tires did.

Q3 – Has the tire pattern changed? Yes, but Tony did not have any details. He said it was very similar to a Yokohoma tire (whatever that means).

Q4 – Is the new tire Directional ? Yes! (This is new for Legends racing tires. BF Goodrich tires were non directional.)

Q5 – What is the durameter (hardness) rating of the new Federal tire? Tony said they durameter at 60 points (The BF Goodrich tires consistently durametered at 57-58 at 70 degrees). This means that these new tires are 2 point harder. How will that change your set up? How will this change tire wear?

Q6 – When will INEX require these tires for competition? Tony said that they hope to have enough tires distributed to require them starting March, 2010. They will allow Legends cars that run on dirt to continue to run on the BF Goodrich tire until the supply of old BF Goodrich tires are exhausted.

Q7 – What will the Federal Legends series tire cost? Tony said that they do not expect the tire cost to increase and there may be a slight decrease in tire prices.

Q8 – Will INEX allow the new Federal tire to be camber cut? Tony said that INEX will continue to allow the tires to be camber cut and the “wear bar rule” will remain the same in the rule book. (This tells me that the tires have a wear bar and are street/performance tested and rated.)

Q9 – Will the tires be the same size – 205 60R13 ? Darn it! I forgot to ask him!!!!

Q10 – Will CamberCutters™ charge more in 2010 to camber cut these new tires? No, the cost of camber cutting tires will remain $25 each. We have not changed our cutting costs for 4 years. I will even consider a reduction in cost IF I find that the new tires are easier to cut and less time consuming to cut.

Q11 – How will CamberCutters™ change in 2010? I have added a Coats 5050 tire changer in-house. This new tire changer will really speed up turn-around time. Secondly, I have added a Digital Coil Spring Tester (Intercomp 100059) – there is no charge to test your coil springs if I am camber cutting your tires. Finally, camber cutting tires will remain my full-time job March – September each year. I really enjoy cutting them!

If and when I find out more “reliable” information I will pass it along.

As always, your feedback to me is always welcomed and encouraged – I cannot improve unless you tell me what works and does not work.

Hope this information helps you plan for your 2010 Legends season.

Gary Cagle - – http://sites.google.com/site/cambercutters

[FlyHigh Racing]

Interesting, I have raced these things for 7 years with some success and have yet to see a BF tire at 57-58 on the durometer at 100 degrees let alone at 70 degrees "with the exception of one batch that was deemed legal by Inex and had a grand father clause attached to serial #", this done with numerous durometers and bought from numerous dealers. My hope was that they would make the tire harder so they would last longer and the driver ability would even need to be greater. Time will tell, and I won't be holding my breath that the price might be coming down. Good post Gary and thanks for the info and the update,


jon

[Gary Cagle]

I called Tony at 600 Racing again this AM to recheck to confirm the durameter rating of the new Federal tire. He assures me that they are designed to test at 60 on the durameter.

I also learned a few more things:

Q2- What will be the brand name/number of the Federal tire? No number given but Kris Perry in Purchasing said that thet are a V groove design, directional, similar to the SS595.

Q9 – Will the tires be the same size – 205 60R13 ? Yes! AND he said the tires are 3-4 pounds lighter. Interesting!

Kris said that they have been tested allot and performance did not drop off - drivers liked them.

Finally. Kris said that the actual contract between Federal and 600 had not been signed yet but Federal was at the Top of the list.

[IRL13fan]

Originally Posted by FlyHigh Racing

Interesting, I have raced these things for 7 years with some success and have yet to see a BF tire at 57-58 on the durometer at 100 degrees let alone at 70 degrees "with the exception of one batch that was deemed legal by Inex and had a grand father clause attached to serial #", this done with numerous durometers and bought from numerous dealers. My hope was that they would make the tire harder so they would last longer and the driver ability would even need to be greater. Time will tell, and I won't be holding my breath that the price might be coming down. Good post Gary and thanks for the info and the update,


jon

What did the old tires test on the durometer from your experiences?

[Legend03]

Hopefully 600 was in error with their durometer readings. A softer tire will increase costs in the series that is supposed to be INEXpensive. IRL, I believe the softest I have seen is a mid 60 reading in the 7 years I have been at this. Jon might share what he has seen. He is a little more anal than myself and probably has notes on his tire readings.

[FlyHigh Racing]

Anal? We refer to it as thorough, D man, having only one car, driver and awesome crew chief it makes it easier, you on the other hand are Superman handeling 2 cars, drivers not to mention your Quarter midgets on Sunday, you should get an award for the unbelievable effort.

Inex rule book.

"TIRES: The tire must be a “Legends Edition” 205/60R13
BFGoodrich T/A Comp HR4. Tires may not be soaked,
softened, siped (razor cuts), grooved or recapped. The raised
white letters of the BFGoodrich Tires logo must face towards
the outside of the car and be visible at all times.
Hardness - If any tire is softer than 58 points on the
durometer, the driver will be disqualified for that event and
the tire will be destroyed. Tire warmers and any other means
of artifi cially warming tires are prohibited."

Like I had mentioned in an earlier post the best I have ever seen is a 58 "very hot" and I made our tech official aware of it. Over the last year the best ambient tire reading we ever took was a 61. I also believe that we here in middle america don't get the pick of the litter when it comes to tires, that is my opinion formed from some pretty good home work. With each heat cycle the number continues to climb. I am a little baffled on how a new tire is going to weigh 3-4 pounds lighter, are they not steel belted or is there a lighter rubber compound of some sort, that is a bunch of weight per tire. My hope is they are harder and wear longer. In 7 years we have never had a flat or a leak "knock on wood" so I hope the durability remains the same, I am for anything that has budget and safety in mind. We ran 10 races at CNS this season on one set of left sides and 2 sets of right sides, with freight our tire bill was under $1000. For you math wizards that is under $100 a night for tires, not sure there are many types of competitive racing where you can get away with that. Sitting in my 60 degree garage all four tires measure about 67-70 on the Krizman durometer, they are probably still frozen from the TrackSide Car show. ; )

[IRL13fan]

Originally Posted by FlyHigh Racing

Anal? We refer to it as thorough, D man, having only one car, driver and awesome crew chief it makes it easier, you on the other hand are Superman handeling 2 cars, drivers not to mention your Quarter midgets on Sunday, you should get an award for the unbelievable effort.

Inex rule book.

"TIRES: The tire must be a “Legends Edition” 205/60R13
BFGoodrich T/A Comp HR4. Tires may not be soaked,
softened, siped (razor cuts), grooved or recapped. The raised
white letters of the BFGoodrich Tires logo must face towards
the outside of the car and be visible at all times.
Hardness - If any tire is softer than 58 points on the
durometer, the driver will be disqualified for that event and
the tire will be destroyed. Tire warmers and any other means
of artifi cially warming tires are prohibited."

Like I had mentioned in an earlier post the best I have ever seen is a 58 "very hot" and I made our tech official aware of it. Over the last year the best ambient tire reading we ever took was a 61. I also believe that we here in middle america don't get the pick of the litter when it comes to tires, that is my opinion formed from some pretty good home work. With each heat cycle the number continues to climb. I am a little baffled on how a new tire is going to weigh 3-4 pounds lighter, are they not steel belted or is there a lighter rubber compound of some sort, that is a bunch of weight per tire. My hope is they are harder and wear longer. In 7 years we have never had a flat or a leak "knock on wood" so I hope the durability remains the same, I am for anything that has budget and safety in mind. We ran 10 races at CNS this season on one set of left sides and 2 sets of right sides, with freight our tire bill was under $1000. For you math wizards that is under $100 a night for tires, not sure there are many types of competitive racing where you can get away with that. Sitting in my 60 degree garage all four tires measure about 67-70 on the Krizman durometer, they are probably still frozen from the TrackSide Car show. ; )

They might be Bias-Ply tires. That would account for the weight.

[FlyHigh Racing]

Thanks David. Is that good or bad vs what we are currently running? I like the reduced weight, how about durability, should be interesting.

[okiesnake]

Granted I am a Legends Road Racer so I am only speaking in terms of what I have seen as the tires apply to road racing. However, I would think the tire's characteristics would also apply to asphalt.
They are 1-ply and the side walls aren't stiff enough.
They wear VERY badly.
They might be good if they had Legends “Drifting” competitions though.
I race at Hallett (Oklahoma) with some of the top Road Course racers in the nation. I personally have not used the new Federal tires after seeing how badly they performed for everyone else. I am hoping that they will resolve the issue before my BFG need to be replaced.
Lap times were slower and the tires were shot after one week-end.
Five different drivers have tried them. They have all gone through their second set. They have tried various air pressures. Carefully heat cycled them and so forth.
The consensus was also that the tires probably aren’t safe at Road Course speed in excess of 100 MPH.
One of the big reasons I got into Legends cars was that I was supposed to not have to replace the tires after each weekend.
I know there maybe some big endorsement dollars at stake between 600 racing and Federal BUT give us a tire that works! The BFG worked.
I would love to hear input from others with the tires and especially anyone with road course experience.

[CLEGGRACER]

Friday night I was the first one to win on them this year. I'm starting to really like them to be honest. I had to sacrifice a couple chances at wins early in the season to figure them out, but I know here in a couple weeks after people burn up their BFG's and have to switch it'll be worth the sacrifices. I have great wear on my tires, we've run them three nights so far and other than the normal complaints: Chunking in the middle of the tread the first night and feathering, I have had no problems. The only thing I don't like is when they get up there in temperature and you make contact with another car, they come apart VERY easily. Other than that I haven't seen anything. I'm not sure about road racing but we have a track here that's very rough, we really think we'll burn up a set in a night here just because of how rough it is. Hopefully you have better luck with them from here on out.